My husband is often in earshot when people probe, “I don’t know how you do it all with your family and your career.” In asking the question there is doubt, of course, that it’s possible. My husband is never the recipient of the same question regardless of the facts: we both have intense, high-demanding careers in medicine as physician leaders. Reality is, there may be little different in our level of responsibility, time commitments, and our opportunity to improve pediatric health care while there is no difference in our passion and commitment to raising our boys. So the calculus around the questioning doesn’t equate — nobody ever asks him about his balance with work and family.
My grudge with this disparity wavers in intensity. I bring this up now because of Matt Lauer’s controversial conversation with General Motors CEO, Mary Barra. He wondered if she could be a good mom and run GM on national TV. He said,
“You’re a mom, I mentioned, two kids, you said in an interview not long ago that your kids said they’re going to hold you accountable for one job, and that is being a mom,” he said. “Given the pressure at General Motors, can you do both well?”
It’s not only his egregious comment that aggravates, we’ve all gotten used to similar questions for women who work. What sets the interview on fire is his deflection of bias and responsibility. With this episode in the never ending media series on women and work-life balance we learn again that there is quite a bit of:
- Ongoing persistent cultural bias against women in leadership roles: we constantly wedge women and their success into the construct of balance with work and home when we rarely project men against the same backdrop.
- Ongoing anxiety about this bias coupled with a desire to eradicate it. Culturally, most of us don’t want to think about men and women’s responsibilities in the work place and home differently. We like to mature past our current realities when it comes to equity and sharing responsibilities for child-rearing and work.
Can we acknowledge the ongoing, profound cultural bias against women leaders and control that doesn’t exist in similar ways for men?
Working Family Numbers:
Numbers from The 2014 White House Summit On Working Families
- In almost 3 out of every 5 US families with children, both parents work
- Women make up nearly 1/2 (47%) of the US workforce
- Women bring home 44% of their families income
- Women obtain more than 1/2 (59%) of all higher education degrees
Matt Lauer defended his questions to Barra. Instead of acknowledging the reality that women leaders are held to different cultural standards USA Today reported that Matt Lauer said, “if a man in a high-level job had publicly discussed the issue [as Mary Barra had been asked to do in Forbes] he’d have ‘asked him exactly the same thing.'”
Really?
This public blunder isn’t new and yet the challenge of how we support parents raising families is gaining national import. This spring, for example, The White House launched and has hosted a series of summits on working American families. It is clear that the division of responsibility for child rearing is changing as is our support of men and women with families who go to work.
When women are not paid fairly not only do they suffer but so do their families — The White House in their Guide To Women’s Equal Pay Rights
I’d say the same is true when it comes to perception, bias, and culture around women’s role at work and at home: When women are treated differently in the workplace from men (in regards to their joint responsibility raising children and having a career) not only do they suffer, but so do their families.
Can we admit we have a perception problem when it comes to women at work? Perhaps if we do, we’ll get farther, faster.
Quick, somebody please go through Matt Lauer’s extensive list of interviews with Fortune 500 CEO’s and find a similar question to a male CEO about his success at home and at work — and then watch this clever advertisement about what girls may hear when we say “You’re so pretty.”
Let’s start by acknowledging current state instead of only defending ideal state — perhaps women will stop suffocating in the conversation about “doing it all.”
Katie @ Mommy Call says
This interview infuriated me for the same reasons. I wrote a similar post about the gender bias in working parents last week: https://mommycallblog.com/2014/06/19/working-outside-the-home/
Pam says
Liar liar pants on dire, Matt Lauer! Shame on you!
Rebecca says
For me it was not about “doing it all” but finding the right balance and support to do both. After the birth of my first child I was fortunate to find a per diem job that allowed me to stay at home during the day while still working some nights and weekends. Unfortunately, after a year and half, the job requirements changed to include additional weekday work requirements leaving me with no reliable day time child care options for my now two small children. After a year of struggling with this, I was finally forced to resign. I was especially disappointed as I was working at a medical institution that proudly claims a family friendly environment for their maternity patients. If I could not find family friendly support as an employee there, where would I be supported as a working Mom?
Victoria says
Thanks for writing about this topic. It’s clear from your posts that this is an important issue to you, for good reasons. In fact, posts like this one were my primary motive for buying your book. Having been a stay-at-home-mom for quite a few years and possessing an advanced degree, I am both excited about -and dreading- my return to the workforce for many reasons. Thus, I was curious about why you ‘love being a working mom’. To me, there is not a right or wrong way to be a mom. Whether one stays home, works part-time or goes back to work full-time, they will hopefully weight all of their options and make a good choice for their family. What I have found frustrating are the ‘mommy wars’, the biases and social struggles that are waged between working moms (who chose to or had to return to work) and those that have chosen to (or had to) work at home. Hopefully, with time, women will be able to make a choice regarding how to care for their families without social pressure. Considering human nature and how little consideration is given to one another’s choices in our society, such a status is doubtful. In my humble opinion, your conglomeration of posts surrounding this topic do not do stay-at-home moms any service. For instance, I have not read anything you have written about the benefits of staying at home for the first year of a child’s life. If I have overlooked such a post, please excuse me. As for myself, I strive not to judge any woman regarding her choices. I listened to the interview referenced here and find that it upsets me that women are still questioned about their choice(s) regarding their career after becoming a mom.
Wendy Sue Swanson, MD, MBE says
Hi Victoria,
This topic is of import, of course, and part of my intent here is to transparently share my personal journey as a mom and pediatrician which inherently involves work. It is certainly not my intent to leave one group out here (SAHM) but it will always happen, from time to time, when you share personal stories and perspectives. This is a personal blog, after all. In your comment it seems you want me to write to the benefit of staying home with children for the first year of life — as if to say that there is empiric data that the choice is somehow superior. There are no formal recommendations for children’s health regarding working vs staying at home during a child’s infancy and therefore I can’t write to the experience (I didn’t do that) nor to any data that it’s better for a child when parents don’t return to work prior to 1 year. I certainly celebrate and enjoy partnering with families who have made the choice to parent full time during a child’s infancy but I am unsure a post on the data will do much service. Hope that explains this a bit. The “Why I love Being a Working Mom” post came about organically because of the experience I had with my son traveling to give a talk in Europe. It TRULY was one of the best parenting decisions I’ve made (taking him) and one of the first times I felt a great joy being a “working mom” while being able to offer that rich experience. He shared in my work for the first time and that was very meaningful to me bc my work is so important to who I am.
Do you think I answered your comment; did I misread the comment? The whole point of these posts is also to confirm that there is no one “right” way to do this…and I just share data on parenting, pediatrics and reflections on my personal journey as a working mom…
TLP says
I’m not surprised (anymore). I was deeply surprised when the enlightened, modern men I worked for chose to lay me off while on unpaid maternity leave for my 2nd child, without any discussion whatsoever. I’m certain they thought they were doing me a favor.
In reality, it meant a full time job search while caring for a newborn. It was a very demoralizing thing to learn as a young, highly educated mother. That layoff completely changed the commitment I once had to my profession. In my experience, a deep divide occurs at motherhood.
CTF says
Yes, we can acknowledge the ongoing, profound cultural bias against women leaders and control that doesn’t exist in similar ways for men.
I think one of the reasons it happens is because deep inside there’s the understanding that a working mother is just that: a person with two full-time jobs: one as a mother and the other as a professional something or other. I also think there’s an unspoken understanding that a working father typically has one full-time job as a professional and his job as a father is not (typically) as “full-time” as a mother.
I truly do not intend to be disrespectful to fathers, but this is what I am (shockingly) experiencing in my home and observing in the homes of friends. In these families, I see that the mothers are not only working a full-time job with all the demands and expectations of a professional, but they are also accomplishing/directing ALL the traditional household/family management/care jobs that they would have if they’d been a full-time SAHM (who doesn’t work outside the home). These are all households with modern husbands/fathers/partners who would likely be horrified and offended to read this.
So when Matt Lauer asks Mary Barra, “can you do both [jobs] well?” it’s because he subconsciously knows she is, in addition to being a CEO, also either actually, or via a proxy (nanny/household manager/etc) learning all about her children’s friends/families/teachers, tracking when someone needs new cleats/socks/clothes, birthday parties/presents, household cleaning (likely by directing it), travel plans, overnight sick-child cuddles, planning a grandparent’s 85th birthday party, etc. And he’d never ask a CEO/father the same question because subconsciously he knows that person is absolutely not wondering if their young child’s face was wiped clean that morning or when their fingernails were trimmed or who’s having the birthday party sleepover this weekend.
My husband, my family, my friends, my coworkers, my children’s teachers, all would likely think poorly of me (not my husband) if my children were wearing stained clothes, had crumbs on their mouths, if I didn’t have recent photos printed, if I didn’t plan a birthday party, Christmas cards, get-togethers with other families, dust under the furniture, dishes in the sink. I can’t think of anything other than yard care and car care that any of the same group would attribute to being my husband’s responsibilities. And this is a modern/liberal/non-traditional group of people in Seattle! These stereotypes of responsibilities and the immediate and subconscious attribution to who the responsibility lies with is so sadly surprising to me as a fairly new mother. This is my current state. I don’t want to do it all. But I also don’t want a dirty house, children who don’t go to birthday parties, or the negative judgment associated with “failing” at a domestic responsibility that’s traditionally assigned to mothers. So, I work full-time outside the home, and schedule swim lessons, play dates, buy crayons/markers/new socks too, and have a mostly clean home, because it’s all got to get done somehow!
I don’t know what the solution is, but I do know that part of the problem is the complete imbalance between mothers and fathers when it comes to expectations of responsibilities for child-rearing and home management. And I’m only guessing that this imbalance exists all the way up to women in high-level positions.
Wendy Sue Swanson, MD, MBE says
Thanks for this. I see just the same thing in our groups/schools/community despite the kind men we partner with. The default email address for birthday parties and school volunteering and after-school playdates is always that of the mom, no matter if she works more than Dad, etc. I find myself forwarding those at times saying, can you pls deal with this? It always feels I’m the last to RSVP to the birthday parties (if we do at all) and always find myself apologizing for it….tough cultural construct to chip away at [Mom being default household manager] but I hope we can. Esp while we find ourselves in partnerships with people who really do want equal divisions in all the tasks/responsibilities of rearing kids while also rearing a career.
Michele says
Thanks for this post. I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately and I think I may even be guilty of asking you this question! but it comes from a place of how do you find balance? I struggle with every day with my fast paced and demanding job. I agree that acknowledging the current state is a good starting place – we have to be aware about our unconscious biases if we’re ever going to keep them in check!
Dan Bailey says
I too get irritated when people treat my wife like she’s supermom for working and raising a family. I’m looked at like a slacker for “making” my wife work even though we both work, raise our kids and run our household. It doesn’t help when almost every father figure on TV is portrayed as a bumbling buffoon who can’t find his way out of a paper bag without his wife or kids help. Even at Children’s some of the doctors talk to my wife about our kid’s care like I’m not even in the room. When is our society gong to stop beating up fathers, (the real ones, not the sperm donors), and realize what an important role we take too. That “gender bias” sword cuts both ways.
CTF says
I completely understand Dan’s sentiment. Women have gained a lot of ground/respect in the workplace but not so for Dad’s who want/need to fully participate. I see that my husband’s employer and coworkers tend to still think of “the wife” as a stay-at-home role (even if “the wife” is ALSO working outside the home.) Even though my husband is willing, interested, and theoretically able to participate more in household management (dr appts, sick child days, field trips, etc.,) than say our own fathers in the 80s, he still detects a subtle tone of mockery or lack of understanding when needing/wanting to participate in the real day-to-day stuff. For him, need to reschedule a meeting so you can go to your child’s baseball game? – sure, have fun! Need to take the day off because your child has a fever and a mystery rash? – (smirk) sure (but unspoken is: Don’t you have a wife? I bet you’re also washing dishes.) And, this is in a professional office with “modern” men under the age of 50, who have daughters they expect to attend college and to have careers. They’ve either never had to/wanted to be fully IN within their own families or they’ve fully forgotten the need/want to care for a child, listen to a doctor, assist on a field trip, etc.
I really appreciate you writing this post, thank you!
Related to this, there was a great Q and A with PepsiCo CEO about why she thinks women can’t have it all. (https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/07/why-pepsico-ceo-indra-k-nooyi-cant-have-it-all/373750/)
Wendy Sue Swanson, MD, MBE says
Thanks for this comment, CTF. I really enjoyed the Atlantic piece — Indra Nooyi says things with great candor and refreshing freedom…worth the click for sure!
Wendy Sue Swanson, MD, MBE says
Thanks, Dan. Really appreciate your comment. Have returned to it a few times and thought of it today while seeing patients. Agree this cuts both ways.
Dan Bailey says
Thanks for replying CTF and Wendy, I’m not bitter or anything, it just irks me sometimes when one side is presented and I’m on the other. Parenting magazine also has virtually NOTHING for dads, just fyi.
Wendy Sue Swanson, MD, MBE says
Hi Dan. How about a guest blog on the topic? contact: seattlemamadoc@seattlechildrens.org and let’s see if we can improve the space.
ARS says
Dan’s comments resonate with me and many other single fathers i know.
I am a single father w/half custody of two very young children; i also have a very busy law practice at a large urban law firm with incredible professional pressure. But even with those pressures, I’ve deliberately chosen NOT to hire child-care so my children are with a parent when in my custodial care, pick my kids up from school every other day, teach their Sunday school, coach 4 sports teams a year, participate deeply in school activities, travel with them 2-3x yearly (including internationally), stay on top of their children… and generally provide a happy upper-middle class life for my children and me — and my ex-wife — without a partner or step/mother or anyone else. I often work from home between 9p-2a and/or 5a-7a — all hours the kids are sleeping =– so I can get in my billable hours.
My ex-wife — a great mom — gets tremendous support from everyone, always. She has a live-in nanny in her home (paid for mostly by me), collects child support (exclusively from me), collects massive cash gifts from her parents. she is viewed as super hero — and in many ways, she is.
But I am perceived (admittedly, only before people get to know me) as a bumbling idiot who must be a horrible cook (I am very good and work hard at it), “must have some great help” or “needs a woman’s touch around the home” or “probably never get to see your kids” or a similar flavors of these things.
Just once I’d love for someone to say to me: “I don’t know how you do it all with your family and your career.” The truth is that I really don;t know how I do it. And literally no one has said this to me for the roughly 4 years I’ve been doing it…
Patricia says
While I agree with most of the comments herein, I think we do need to notice that Mary Barra brought up the topic of “being a mom” in an interview and that was the prompt Matt Lauer referenced. Might he not have asked the same thing if a male CEO mwas quoted in any interview that “…my kids want me to be a good father”…?
Given all our experiences I guess we are assuming Matt would have found a way to ask the question regardless 🙁
we’ll never know – until the next time a power-woman is interviewd 🙂