You’ve likely seen the Jimmy Kimmel “public service announcement” on vaccines. Over 3 1/2 million people have viewed it on Youtube so if you’re not yet one of them you’ll likely add to the tally now. The first 3 minutes of the monologue are spot-on and they’re also very funny. Jimmy takes a stand against the “anti-vaxxers.” He mentions that some parents are more scared of “gluten than small pox” and references the reality that some schools in this country have 20% of students opted out of some vaccines. His monologue is followed by a series of pediatricians voicing profane frustration. Most people think the video is hilarious and many of us fired up about vaccines feel a rush when the safety and trust we have in vaccines gets the spotlight like it does here. Jimmy’s script is brilliantly written and his execution is direct.
Thing is, I didn’t like the video. I was left feeling somewhat uncomfortable and embarrassed for my profession. Immediately I wanted to explain that even though many of us are frustrated with where we are on vaccine hesitancy, we really aren’t interested in offending. We will always work to partner with parents –we won’t mock, swear, or intimidate you. Our goal is to support, protect, and cure children whenever we can and our privileged responsibility is to listen to parental fear and connect families with resources that soothe. This really is why we went to medical school.
It’s exciting when celebrities voice-up and stand to talk about vaccine issues that reflect science. It’s especially exciting when they include practicing physicians. Counseling families who are hesitant or flat-out refuse vaccines is a part of the job for every pediatrician. A study published in the journal Pediatrics this week found 93% of pediatricians had reported they’d been asked by parents to skip or delay vaccines in the last month. The current measles outbreak has changed the tone of these conversations for many of us; I’ve written about my new stance because I’m enraged pockets of measles can even occur in 2015. That being said, even though I really do like to swear like these pediatricians when I’m out of public earshot, I’m unsure the tactic of this PSA will do any good for those parents who hesitate to immunize their children according to the tested and safe schedule.
It seems to me that if parenting is governed by love, pediatrics is governed by respect for that love and for the integrity of children individually.
Let us be kind to each other, for most of us are fighting a hard battle. ~Ian Maclaren
Those who don’t immunize their children because of fear or safety concerns deserve unwavering professional respect. We all suffer when we continue to alienate and divide ourselves. In my mind our impatience for wanting change faster shouldn’t deteriorate our tenets.
You probably aren’t going to take medical advice from a talk show host. I would expect you to take medical advice from almost every doctor in the world. ~Jimmy Kimmel
We’ll all do this somewhat differently. Some pediatricians will fire patients who don’t take their advice to immunize. Some pediatricians will stand up against those who do. Some of us think this PSA was spot-on, some of us don’t. But in an email exchange with a group of pediatricians about the video I was most struck by the Maclaren quote included at the end of an email. Ian Maclaren, the pen name of a 19th century author and theologian, captures and summarizes rationale for mutual respect well. My pediatric colleague detailed the history of the quotation as documented in the Chicago Tribune in 1965: “Most of us are acutely aware of our own struggles and we are preoccupied with our own problems. We sympathize with ourselves because we see our own difficulties so clearly. But Ian MacLaren noted wisely, ‘Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle.’”
Kate Landry says
“…if parenting is governed by love, pediatrics is governed by respect for that love and for the integrity of children individually.” – Wow! So incredibly well said. Thank you for writing these words, they strike me as good words to live and work by.
Wendy Sue Swanson, MD, MBE says
Thanks, Kate. So glad that resonated.
Stephanie says
You hit the nail on the head with this one. There has been a lot of hate and harsh words for “anti-vax” parents lately and I keep thinking, but what are we doing to help and support those people and bring them around? Calling them idiots will surely get us no where.
Dave Hoffman says
This afternoon I had a great opportunity to teach a young couple, parents of a two-month-old, about vaccine safety and efficacy. This poor couple had tragically lost their first child to SIDS at 4 months of age a few years ago, and now they want to be as cautious as possible with this baby. Their plan was to wait until the baby was at least a year old to vaccinate. I was able to express my sadness and sympathy for their loss, and at the same time calmly explain that I think that waiting is a terrible idea. I told them how overwhelming evidence says that the vaccines I was recommending are safe, and that the disease they prevent are real risks to their baby now, not in a year. I gave them the option to think about it, talk about it, and wait as long as they felt comfortable. By the time I finished the baby’s physical exam, they told me that they wanted to go ahead and vaccinate today. I’ve found over the years that getting visibly angry or mocking people who question vaccines will be counterproductive. Showing them that I care, that I understand their concerns, and that I know the science … is effective in the vast majority of cases. I get the joke of the video, and I’ve definitely thought those thoughts, but I would never, ever use that tone with actual parents.
Heidi Roman says
Thank you for this. I heartily agree. I feel the same way about the Kimmel PSA and the general tone of the conversation lately. I completely understand (and share) the frustration/anger of colleagues regarding the ramifications of the anti-vaccination movement, but I don’t think insults or lack of respectful conversation from either side does anyone any good. It doesn’t get kids vaccinated.
Vincent Iannelli, MD, FAAP says
“I was left feeling somewhat uncomfortable and embarrassed for my profession.”
A recent study says that almost all pediatricians give in to parents when they ask about delaying vaccines, even though they don’t think any of their strategies will work to get more kids vaccinated.
There are more ‘vaccine-friendly’ pediatricians around than anyone would like to admit, who openly push their own non-standard, parent-selected, delayed protection vaccine schedules. Everyone focuses on Dr. Bob Sears, but there are plenty of pediatricians who are contributing to the current outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases in the US by pandering and sometimes creating fears in parents.
There are holistic pediatricians and integrative pediatricians who push non-evidence based treatments for autism, ADHD, and every other condition under the sun.
Those things all make me very ‘uncomfortable and embarrassed for my profession.’
I’m ok with a bit on Jimmy Kimmel that I can’t post on my practice website because of all of the bleeps. It is simply a message that will reach a different group of people and a lot more people than most of us can ever hope to reach.
Get Educated. Get Vaccinated. Stop the Outbreaks.
Wendy Sue Swanson, MD, MBE says
Hi Dr Iannelli,
There are many moments and lots of examples for us to be embarrassed for our profession. Agreed. But there are also many moments to be proud.
Like I said, many pediatricians enjoyed this (we are on many overlapping listserves so we’ve read many of the same responses) yet I had the reaction I did. I’d take the first 3 minutes and leave it be. The profane frustrated pediatricians just didn’t inspire humor in me. And I don’t think it’s going to help.
Someone did write me on twitter suggested that maybe it was a good thing as it made refusing vaccines seem “un-cool.” I’m unsure…
Stephanie says
I agree that calling people idiots isn’t really going to do the trick. My fear is there isn’t much that can be done. In my conversations with parents who choose a delayed schedule or don’t vaccinate at all really seek out the information they want to believe. I’ve heard “I’ve read the vaccine kills” yet they haven’t read that measles kills? It seems like the latest fad to be that parent who stands up to vaccines. Unfortunately, there’s a big difference between not protecting your child from horrible diseases and being the “mean” mom who won’t let her kids watch PG-13 movies. It saddens me that I have to worry about my 11 month old daughter because she’s too young for some vaccines. It’s not fair that other children can put my child in danger and there is nothing I can do about it.
John Mandrola says
Good on you WSS. That sort of tone-deaf message from doctors contributed greatly to the problem. And thanks for the Ian Maclaren message.
Wendy Sue Swanson, MD, MBE says
Thanks, John. The Maclaren message is what got me off my hands and encouraged the post. Powerful stuff.
Ashley says
I appreciate this alternative take on the Kimmel bit. Personally, I found it refreshing and funny–I knew the doctors were kidding, and it was a nice change from the tiptoeing I think most doctors feel compelled to do with vaccine-hesitant parents. I think it would’ve likely been better if they had recruited actors instead of real doctors, but at the same time, it was invigorating to hear passion of this kind from doctors. I didn’t see it as tone-deaf at all. As a formerly vaccine-hesitant parent myself, I got a huge kick out of it.
That being said, it was entertainment, not real life, and this needless to say, this approach would not work in real life! I like that Seattle Mama Doc is so thoughtful about approach and tone. After all, she is having these conversations every day.
Janet says
I absolutely loved this video. I have heard and seen too many pediatricians say” its not my place to lecture” or “Its not going to do any good no matter what I say.” I think that is a total cop out!!
I do agree that the video will not change many minds but Jimmy Kimmell earned my respect for speaking out when so many others don’t!
Scott St. Clair says
With respect, I disagree.
Typical anti-vaxxers aren’t interested in persuasion, they’re interested in promoting a junk-science, mythological pseudo-religion. Is is the case with all true believers, facts, data and your well-meaning kindness stand in their way and must be crushed.
The debate has become political in nature. When it comes to politics, one place I go for tutelage in strategy and tactics is Saul Alinsky. Among his “Rules for Radicals” is this, his number 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.”
I think in ridiculing anti-vaxxers with real doctors, Jimmy Kimmel put them on the defensive. They’re used to being deferentially treated, and they’ve come to have an entitlement mentality that says their opinions are as valid, as good, as worthy, as true as everyone else’s. Truth is relative, data is meaningless and an over 92 percent consensus of doctors saying the Disneyland measles outbreak was caused by anti-vaxxers is a nothing.
You can’t reason with thinking like that — you have to defeat it. One way — one weapon in your arsenal — is to discredit the source by poking fun at it.
They can’t stand not being taken seriously — drives them nuts. That’s why Kimmel has been inundated with hate mail and vicious screeds since his initial video: he hit a nerve, they can’t respond, so they spew venom.
Admittedly, following Kimmel’s or Alinsky’s path isn’t everyone’s bag. But I work all day, every day in that environment, so I have no difficulty taking them on when I find them. And I don’t do it to change an anti-vaxxer’s mind. Instead, it’s to sway those who are in the audience. So far, the feedback I get is that it’s working.
Please continue to post on the subject because you offer a unique and important perspective. In the meantime, it’s OK to leave the bare-knuckle arguing to an old King County, now New Jersey, activist like myself.
Andy Marshall says
Thank you, Dr. Swanson. I respect your position as a practicing pediatrician. For many of us who’ve been engaging the discussion from other perspectives (mine is parental–my son has an autism spectrum diagnosis), it’s easier to share Kimmel’s frustration and to let his tactics resonate. Which is not to say that I expect them to succeed.
You’re not wrong. And I’m not suggesting that you have no right to be frustrated, or that you haven’t been engaged in the debate for as long as others. I’m just saying that I understand and share Kimmel’s perspective. I’ve been arguing with antivaxxers on the Internet for years, and it’s very frustrating when science, logic, reason, and patience don’t get through, and are answered with misinformation, conspiracy accusations, quackery promotion, and outright lies. That said, you, as both a doctor and mother, must do things the way that you must do them, and it is right hard to argue that kindness is anything but a virtue in persuasion. Please don’t give in to blaming yourself as a communicator when families won’t heed your advice on immunization.
A shoutout to our undergraduate school’s alumni news bulletin, the most recent issue of which cited you as a social media force, and without which I’d never have known to come take a look at your writing. You seem like a sane and sensible and valuable voice. Thanks.
Bill Sandberg says
Why is it always pro-vaccine vs anti-vaxxers? What about the concerns of intelligent concerned parents that have seen such one-sided arguments from both sides that they don’t trust either side? We don’t want our children to be unprotected and stigmatized by being unvaccinated. We want our children to be safely protected from harmful diseases – period.
The anti-vaxxers promote a lot of junk science, half truths, and conspiracy theories which prevents many potentially valid concerns from even being addressed. On the other hand, I’ve never seen anyone who is pro-vaccine acknowledge that profit motives, political pressure, and the vaccine makers’ immunity from prosecution could easily have a negative impact on the quality of our vaccines and vaccine research.
In my research, I cannot find safety studies that have used a true placebo in the control groups. Why is that? The studies supporting the safety of vaccines do not accept subjects that have underlying issues such as immunosuppression, previous reactions to vaccines, autoimmune conditions, history of allergies, sensitivity to aluminum or other ingredients, any type of illness, or low weight/small size. In other words, the studies only accept subjects that are in top health as it would be unethical to test on children that are not. With the epidemic of autoimmune disease, asthma, and allergies we are seeing in our children, the safety studies overstate the true safety of our vaccination program. At 6 months of age, many of the health issues with our children are not yet known. The CDC is recommending that infants receive 19 shots of 25 vaccines by 6 months – How can a parent feel comfortable that this is safe? Vaccinations may have prevented untold numbers of illnesses but there may also be a cost that is not apparent for years or even generations. It is up to parents to weigh the costs and benefits.
While I would like to see everyone immunized, vaccinations do not provide the “normal” immunization. If it did, we would not so many vaccinations repeated. Its is time to press the vaccine manufacturers to address the concerns of parents like they did when they removed Thimerosol from most vaccines. Its
time to press for doctors to come up with tests that will predict adverse reactions. Its time for anti-vaxxers to do the work needed to verify what they say and stick to honest science. Its time for pro-vaxxers to work to get politics and profit out of our vaccine research and policies.
The CDC and the vaccine manufacturers admit that a small number of children will have near-term adverse reactions and will not even speculate on long-term affects. If scientific knowledge is not developed enough to predict which children will be at risk from vaccines, we need to stop and think about what we may be doing to our children’s immediate and future health.
Evie Allen says
I have an 11 yo son who is deathly afraid of vaccines, not blood draws or IVs (he had a ruptured appendix when he was 9 and quickly got over his fear of IVs) but for some reason he has a panic attack when the mention of vaccines comes up. He needs his Tdap this year and I don’t know what to do. We already attempted once and failed, we left without doing it because he coward in the corner and wouldn’t let anyone near him. Do you have any suggestions?? Do they ever use nitrous oxide for vaccines like they do for dental procedures?